Dustin : Let's say you have 5 million of real estate. You could have a bank put a million dollars a year into your policy for five years. Now, at the end of five years, we could cash out, refinance, pay off the bank. Now you have 5 million of liquid cash value in your whole life or your IUL. Then now you can leverage to go buy more properties.
Casey: Hello, and welcome to the You're an Asset podcast. I'm your host, Casey the Dollar, and on this podcast, we find out who is an asset in the financial industry, and who is just an ass. Welcome back, everybody. It is season two of the You're an Asset podcast, and I have a very special guest. What's great about this guest and what's going to be great about this season is that this guest and I have never had a conversation up until the last 10 minutes.
He does not know the questions I'm going to be asking him. We have not prepared for this at all. And he happens to be in the insurance industry, just like me working with cash value life insurance. This season, I really want to focus on allowing other agents or financial advisors in the industry.
To prove that they are an asset. All right, without further ado, Mr. Dustin Wylie. Hey, Dustin!
Dustin : Hey, appreciate you having me on. I'm glad you said that you hope I'm an asset because I was getting real nervous.
Casey : Right, I feel like Anyone who I invite on the show is gonna be like a tad nervous because last season was very, you know, fists were, fists were flying. of it last season. But I, I feel like not shining light on other people who are doing a good job in this industry is a disservice to the followers and to the listeners and to the clients.
You and I have been following each other for a while now on Instagram, TikTok. How, how long do you think it's been? Probably at least almost two years.
Dustin : It's rounding two years. So I started social media marketing full time, February of last year. And really stepping it up about August of last year. So I think I followed you on Tik TOK first. And then one day I was like, you know what? I'm doing Instagram more. Let me follow more people on Instagram that are doing what I'm doing.
So I found you again.
Casey : Amazing. It's been a long time coming for us to chat offline, not just in DM. So I'm really excited to have you here. Let's just start off with Dustin. Where are you located? How old are you? How, how long have you had your license?
Dustin : So I'm from Duncan, Oklahoma, middle of nowhere, no one's ever heard of it pastures everywhere, no mountains. Yeah, I've had my license. I actually have a photo up here that says August 2021 is the first day of the rest of your life. That's the day that I passed my licensing.
Casey : Wow. Okay. Okay. I love it. Okay. Oklahoma. Do you have a family partner? Kids?
Dustin : Yep. I got a wife of 10 years. We just celebrated this year in March 10 years. Well, we were together three years before that. I have a 13 year old, she'll be 14 in six months and a nine year old, all girls. I'm,
Casey : Oh my
Dustin : the only man. And for like two years, I didn't see a guy in sight because I was studying for my exam.
And then I was reading all these books that you can't see above me about cash value, life insurance, and the financial services industry. So literally it was just. Women in pink all day long. So I mean you see the colors here just bled over
Casey : I love it. I love it. So you're a busy man. Geez. Geez Louise.
Dustin : Yeah, 24 7
Casey : 24 7. Congratulations on 10 years of marriage. That's a long time and a huge accomplishment. In this day and age, honestly.
Dustin : And we still enjoy each other. So that's even more rare
Casey : Amazing. I'm really happy for you. Now, who, who introduced you and said like, hey, you should get your license or was it something you were researching and stumbled upon?
Dustin : So, I don't know if I should say agencies, but I will I was like started my 75 hard journey and I was looking up top 10 Businesses to be in or top 10 jobs that pay well that you don't have to have a college degree for even though I have A college degree. I have a BBA That's business administration, but the long and short of it is I was on tick tock where I found you I found you right after this I looked up and there was a bunch of FFL agents at the time before they got in trouble before they couldn't do it anymore said hey, you know Karen How much money did you make last month 40, 000?
Hey, John, how much did you make? 120, 000 Whoa, these guys don't seem very smart. They're making that much money. Maybe I'll do that. So I started looking up life insurance. Hashtag life insurance. Came across Ron Sneller, came across you, came across David McKnight and YouTube. I came across Doug Andrews. So from there I was like, maybe this is something.
I need to do, because I've always been good at math. I say it a lot to my kids whenever they make bad grades on math papers. I was like, you know, in college algebra, I made 103. 2. And they're always like, oh, dad, shut up. But I was like, hey, I'm good at math. I might as well do something that has to do with numbers.
Casey : Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. That's actually a very unique story of just researching what, what jobs and then seeing people and being inspired by them in a way that's more like, I can do this better than what they're doing. Like, and if they can do it, I can absolutely do it. And here you are doing it.
Dustin : And what tipped me over the edge to absolutely actually do it is this guy at the gym. So I went to this gym, I call him a Guido. So he had big 20 inch arms and his legs were about like that big around. He was always spray tanned. And I was like, what does this guy do? He's, he's driving like a G wagon. He's got a Rolex on at the gym and he answers the phone.
He starts talking about finances and I was like, okay, what's he saying? So in my mind I wrote down everything he said. I went back to my computer and I typed in everything he said and I was like, That's wrong. That's wrong. That's a lie. So basically he was telling his client, Oh, the best we can do right now is put you in a 1 percent return CD.
There's nothing out there guaranteed beating that. And I was like, what? Once I learned that he said that, I was like, I got to get in this industry and I have to smash everyone who's lying, who's writing large commission cases, which we'll probably talk about later. I just needed to come in and clean house.
Casey : Wow, I I'm gonna take credit real quick that my intuition about you, Justin, was correct. Because that is, like, if that is not your motivation, to me, if you don't immediately get into this industry and go, What the fuck is going on? We have to do something about this. Then I don't trust you. Because there's so much wrong with this industry.
And the industry needs people who can see right through it. And do something about it because it is detrimental to the financial health of the entire society who has access to these products and is getting fed bullshit. There's gotta be somebody out there that's speaking the truth. And if you can't see that that's a need when you get into this industry, like, you're gonna be part of the problem if you ask me.
I, I love it. Okay, so then You got your license on your own. Did you start, like, what company were you working with? What, did you just go straight solo and start to get direct contracts? Like, what, what was that like?
Dustin : Yeah, so I actually fed into and drank the Kool Aid so the first place I went was FFL I thought okay, I'll go to their website put my name in I got a call 30 minutes later And they're like this guy answers the phone to this day. I follow him. He's a good guy, but he Once again, just works all over the place, writes high target cases, blah, blah, blah, but he said, Hey, you know, we can get you started, but I want to make sure that you're a good candidate.
We don't just take anyone, you know, the same old sales language, uh, sent me through the exam, sent me through testing, got my license. And I was about three minutes from signing all my contracts and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna get on YouTube and I'm gonna look up FFL, like FFL scam, FFL this. And I came across a guy named Greg Birch.
Don't know if you know who Greg Birch is, if anyone's listening. He basically was the number one producer at FFL for like two months and he was doing it over zoom. So he wasn't doing it in houses. They were really pushing for you to be in house. And he was the first person to do it. He had a 210, 000 month Just writing final expense term and a couple annuities.
So long and short of it, he beat the record by like 120 percent in production, and he left immediately afterwards. And I was like, oh. So I watched his podcast and he was just dogging on the guy who owns that place. And at the very end he said, hey, call this number if you have any issues or if you feel like you need questions answered.
So I called him. He answered and I was like, wow. You answered and I said, Hey, I'm about to sign these contracts over. He goes, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I'm gonna tell you, the first thing you're going to do is you're going to spend every dollar that you have buying leads, you're going to call all those leads.
They're going to cuss you out and say, I've already bought from someone at your company, and then you're going to go back to work because all your money's gone. And I was like. Well, I don't want to do that. And he goes, well, we're not recruiting or anything, but you sound like you're a good guy. I'm from Texas.
You're from Oklahoma here. I'll send you a link. We'll get your contract with us. Okay. So long and short of it, I started with advantage one brokers. They put me under a guy named Cody long story short with him. He wrote 300, 000 of business in one month and come to find out he defrauded one of the companies he was.
Yeah. He was taking their information. Completely saying, okay, appreciate it. Put his bank account information on it, rebated himself and was writing all this business so he could get overrides in the future. He went to jail, he got fired. And from there I was like, I don't know if I want to be in this industry. Yeah, it was, it was a ride. So a couple of weeks later, I didn't know anything about cashflow, your life insurance. They were just teaching you mortgage protection, final expense. And I was like. This is, I don't like this. If this is what I'm doing for a living, I'm going back to plumbing. They offered a training course in Tennessee for what's called debt free life.
So basically debt free life is a way to use participating a whole life to use it as a savings account where you can use Dave Ramsey's snowball or avalanche method to pay off debts quicker and at the very end you have cash value. So I was like, you know what? It costs 800 to go to this. I have 1, 200.
It'll take me 300 to stay in a hotel and drive there. And I'll have 50 bucks left. And I was like, I can't believe I'm going to do this. So I drove there, did two days of training. There was two foot of snow. It was the most snow they ever had. It was apocalyptic. I was like, why am I here? And after that, I was like, this is cash fight.
Like, what is this? So I went home, read the books, read the Laser Fund, read all of David McKnight's books. And I was like, okay, this is where I want to go. And for about six months, there was not one person that could reach me. Because I was reading books. I was on carrier trainings. I was talking to my upline, talking to some mentors.
And in six months, I'd say I learned about five years of what anybody else would do.
Casey : It's incredible. tHe, this industry, that would scare the normal person away. What is it about you that you were like, no, I'm going to keep going? Like there's got to be some kind of truth. Like what kept you going through all of that?
Dustin : My answer is funny, but at the same time I believe it and I think it's a mental illness. For me to just, Take my last bit of money, which I didn't tell the rest of my story So, you know, they had the EIDL loans through SBA to where you could get 9, 500 as a business owner. I did it twice. So I took 19, 000 in debt and told myself I'm gonna dig into this industry until I run out of money and I got down to 364 bucks at the very end where I was like, okay I started putting in applications at my old job up the road And I woke up the next day and I had like 625 messages on TikTok.
And I was like, what is this? I looked back and one of my videos went viral. And from there I was booked 12 hours a day for, I think it was 71 days, something like that. I ran hours and hours and hours of appointments, but the best thing is, and I'm telling you if you're listening to this and you're an agent, just do it.
Like go talk to people. And then the more people you meet with, the more you're going to humanize a lead. And you're going to realize that these people are people. And when you write cash value, life insurance, and their whole life, their whole life plan is partially based on this account. You're going to feel a lot worse about writing the wrong policy.
So. I say all that to say, I took out the debt, I got down to basically no money, and then next thing you know it took off. So I don't see it any other thing but a miracle.
Casey : incredible. And again, you and I have a very similar story because that's. That's what just about happened to me. I didn't have these, I didn't take out loans I got some money and I was able to go straight into this industry 100 percent of the time, not make money for five months. I wasn't at a point of giving up or anything, but all of a sudden there was 300 people on my schedule for one month and I was just running appointments 9am to 9pm.
9 every day, and I love, love, love what you said that, you know, the more people you talk to, the more you humanize them, because, I haven't, I haven't thought about it in that way, but it's so true, and it's so important, because a lot of agents do not humanize their clients. They don't because they see clients as money.
Clients are not humans. They are money. They are sales. They are business and when you Do talk to so many people in such a short amount of time and you're trying to also learn how to help them You're getting so many different perspectives of how people are viewing insurance how people are viewing retirement how they're viewing life and When you are in a place like that, where, you know, you're, you're hungry to change your life, like you didn't have time to sit there and think, okay, now that I have all these leads, like, how can I screw them over?
How can I get the most money out of these people? You were focused on, how do I help each of these people accurately? And you have so many of them that the message in your head never changed. It was just like, how can I help this person accurately? How can I help this person accurately, accurately, accurately?
Cause you're trying to build something. And I think when people don't have clients reaching out to them like that and it's really spaced out, they have all this time to sit there and get hungrier and greedy and it turns to greed and then they're going, well, if I only have this one person, how can I benefit the most off of this one person?
And when they're flying at you like that, you don't have time to think about, you're just like, How can I do the best job right now? Okay, done. How can I do the best job again? Okay, done. And all of a sudden you sit back when it's over and you go, Okay, I learned a lot from that. Don't want the volume. But we'll keep the, the conversation.
We'll take all the lessons. We'll use the mistakes to grow. You know, and we'll move forward. And then you skip over this kind of painful, I'm not making any money, I don't have anything going on, period. That a lot of people do have and I'm not, I don't want to paint it like it's an excuse. People haven't had this experience so they're maybe not doing the best job that they could.
They're just getting unlucky because I don't think that's, I don't think that's right. But I do sympathize with people getting into this industry, not having the funds, not having the mentorship, not having the training, not having the money, and then treating people in a way that, hey, I need to make money because I'm thinking about my own livelihood and not about theirs.
Right? So I can see that, of course, but it's really cool that you got to have that experience and I, no doubt that made you into the person, business owner, insurance strategist that you are today for your clients. So I think that's really awesome.
Dustin : For sure, and there's something you talked about that I wanted to touch on. You said that other people don't have the experience we had of just overnight. Success basically where it just blew up for us one day Long long story short is I put nine months of effort and this is where I say it takes a mental illness For nine months.
I posted every day knowing that I got two likes three likes six likes just because you haven't had Our experience of just like blowing up overnight It doesn't mean you shouldn't start if you ever feel like you're giving away too much information for free Like that. I don't know if you feel the same way, Casey, give away all the free information as possible.
For one, they're going to say, Hey, this guy, this girl is going to give me so much information that other people are making me pay for. Imagine if I sit in front of them and actually do business with them. The
Casey : no, 100, 100, 000%. I, I think I've made it maybe not so much online, but in my personal life and with my business partners, like the idea of having building a course and then having people pay for that course makes me sick. I'm not going to put together a course and then have people pay for it and profit off of that because.
I could very easily the amount of people who have licenses who ask me, Casey, do you have courses? Can I pay for training? Can I do this? I'm not against training them, but I don't want to charge people to train them because I want to give out free valuable information. I know that pays off better for everyone in the long run and to profit off of something like that just doesn't sit well with me.
Of course, then you, you run the risk of someone's going to steal your ideas. And we have this conversation a lot at Power Through Financial, it's like, well, if they steal our ideas, then they're most likely treating their clients better. So are we really upset? Like, are we really upset that people are taking our idea and doing better?
Like, no, I'm, I'm not upset about that at all. If someone trains with me because they potentially want to join the team and then they end up backing out. And maybe they are gonna go still sell insurance. I've told people from the jump, when they start training with Pathway Financial, you know, if you're still working with the other carrier, you have another contract until you get situated over here, and you want to use the strategies that I'm talking about with your client, please use them.
Why would I tell someone like, oh, you know, you're not with my company yet, you can't use my strategy that I have on purpose to help people set up their policies correctly, and actually fund them adequately. Get the most value out of them. I'm doing a disservice on, in every regard. So I, I 100 percent agree.
And people, agents shouldn't be, shouldn't be turned off. Because they don't have that lucky, that lucky video that sparks everything. Because the only reason you had a lucky video, the only reason I had a lucky video is because we went and kept posting. You have to keep going. You have to keep trying. It's a lot.
So mental illness being the reason that you get through it. Or that any of us get through it. I, I'm not gonna disagree with that one. Not gonna disagree there. Dustin, what book did you read that you feel like helped you the most, benefited you the most, taught you the most?
Dustin : first book that I read was the power of zero. So whenever I read that book and I realized that for one, most people are going to downgrade their lifestyle. Simply because of taxes and then the planning that has been put in by the dinosaurs of the three letter agencies and You know the financial advising companies that disgusted me for one two to find out that people that make so much money can't Use a Roth IRA and that I had the only really the only fix for their problem.
I thought that was cool You know, did you know that in taxes your your advisor is telling you that you'll pay a lower tax Rate whenever you retire because they're doing bad planning like that's it If you're in a 22 tax bracket and you retire in a 10 That means they didn't do a good job. And did you know that we could put you in a zero percent tax bracket, but you make more money.
So that completely flipped my business upside down and how I thought about insurance in general. And then the Laser Fund, I thought was huge to see, because I'm, I don't know if it's right brain or left brain because I'm so fried, but to see people's actual performances and policies and for them to, to surrender them.
So actual examples are huge for me, like in the book on the, I think it's the orange side. Hey, so and so did a strategic rollout. They put 500, 000 into their IUL. Four years in, somebody said they could do better with their money. So they pulled it out, put it somewhere else. Lost 20 percent because of surrender.
Like you hear all these stories and you're disgusted. So now when you sit with clients, you can say, don't do that. I can tell you why here's here's a reason. So the power of zero gave me a structure on how I should do my business. And then the laser fund really locked in who should be a client who shouldn't be.
So. Another thing is a couple of months ago, I got bored. So I went back and reviewed my statistics when I first started, when I had that big blow up and tick tock. And I think I had a 4 percent closing ratio because I turned down 71%. 25 percent of them said they just didn't want to move forward.
So for me to turn down was that almost 20 times the business.
Casey : Mm hmm.
Dustin : I don't know if anyone understands that speaks volumes, not to toot my own horn, but I could have made 20 times that if I would have just told people, yeah, sure, let's go sign this paperwork. And that's gotten me where I'm at. So I had a couple people that I've mentored that they were writing bad business and they were like, hey, you know, I'm starving.
I got to have money. I was like, hey, I don't care how much money you need. Go get a second job, do something else. If you do right by the client, it's going to come back around to you to say that doing the right thing is just going to keep you broke. It's not, it's what it's going to do. And Alex Ramos, he talks about this a lot in a hundred million dollar offers and a hundred million dollar leads.
If you do the right thing and you do it consistently, your business is going to take over everybody else's business.
Casey : I think that Dustin, you, you just proved to me that you are an asset. 365 days a year, my friend. To hear somebody else say that they turned down a significant amount of business when they did have that lucky break is something I didn't think that I would hear another agent say. That's a big deal.
Because that, what you just said is, God, it's so important. I wish more people would understand that. I did the exact same thing. The exact same thing. Those 300 people that I talked to that first month, I did not do business with even 10 percent of those people. Because these, all of these leads that I had.
were a lot of people saying, you know, they didn't have money, but how could they take advantage of cash value life insurance? The answer was, you can't. Like, you, you can get, I can get you into a term policy, of course. We can talk about where you need to be financially so that it makes sense for you to get a cash value life insurance policy, but I'm not gonna do business if it doesn't make sense.
Right? And it was just, it's that guilty conscience, that, that knowing. My gut says that something is not right here, and we cannot just play around with people's money. We can't just give people what they want because they saw something online. You can't do that. And not a lot of people have the guts to turn down business.
Let's say, for example, a 45 year old, healthy male, non smoker comes to you, but they say, hey, I only have 100. And I really, really want an IUL. I'm not going to set that policy up for that person. I'm not going to put a 45 year old into an IUL with 100 a month when they want the IUL for cash value accumulation and income.
It's not going to give them an income. Most likely they're better off putting that money into the market to try to get the higher returns. The policy is not unvaluable, right? But it's the idea of the client wants income. And you're not going to be able to solve that need for them if that is what they have to contribute.
Cost of insurance is too high and if they don't see the value of having the money tax free to be able to leverage to do something with it and having the death benefit, if they don't see the value in that, there's nothing else to do.
Dustin : Trust me. I understand. I had a client a prospect. He wanted to do 3, 000 a month into an 33 years old and he wanted the flexibility to put up to 9, 000 a month in his policy. I said, sorry, I won't do it. I won't even blend it. And he put that much flexibility in there. And he said, why? So I showed him putting it in max funded.
I showed him fully blended. I think it was 85 percent term, 15 percent permanent, which most carriers will not do that. And then non blended for all that to be permanent insurance. The cash value difference was humongous. So I said, Hey, what we need to do is do 3, 000 a month, 7, 702. Let's do a large convertible term policy.
That way, if you get to the point where you're not insurable in two or three years, when you do want to jump this up to 9, 000, if you are insurable, we'll open up a second one to six grand. If you aren't insurable, we'll convert it into an IUL and hey, you're good to go. No, I want it now. I want it now. I want it now.
So what did you do? I saw him post on this guy named grow with and the rest you can fill in if you know who it is He basically wrote the policy within like two days because he jumped off of my call two days later He was like, I appreciate you writing that policy for me since so and so wouldn't do it And I was like, oh my goodness that completely just let me know that everything that guy had said About 7702 max funding was garbage, which I know you probably don't want to go into this, but I did see that someone that you worked with did that as well.
Their wealth and wealth
Casey : Yeah, wealth management's Yeah, man. No, I called that mother out so hard because he was screwing people over, hardcore and he still claims he's doing a great job. But I recently called out Dan, playing with Dan and 360 Financial who I think is also what you're referring to. No, there's some, there's some big names on social media right now that are not doing a good job.
I, and I can't even invite Dan to be on the podcast now because I called him out so hard that he thinks I'm in. Huge bitch. You know, but that's okay because it had to be done. Okay. So so just let's just back up here for a minute Because I was literally going to ask you like for example If someone wants to contribute, you know 3, 000 to 9, 000 a month.
What would you tell them? Because I don't think People realize the delicacy of that situation When it comes to the client's money, you cannot have that kind of flexibility Inside your IUL And I'll, I'll explain just a little bit for listeners who are maybe not following here. If you want to fund an IUL with 3, 000 a month, right?
That's 36 grand a year. But you want the flexibility to contribute up to 9, 000 a month, which is
Dustin : 108.
Casey : 108. Okay. So if you want the flexibility to be able to contribute between 36, 000 and 108, 000 a year, your policy is going to be extremely lopsided because to be able to fit the 108, 000 per year, anytime you want, you have to purchase enough death benefit coverage to be able to get that money into the policy without causing a taxable event.
So if you don't want to buy all of that death benefit, or you don't end up funding the policy to that extent, you are wasting money. 36, 000 are drastically different. You cannot have that kind of flexibility in your policy. Now, 3, 000 to 4, 000? Okay, no problem. No problem. Those numbers are a lot closer together.
Your policy is going to be just fine if you only contribute the 3000 and then you have years where you contribute more and we're getting into the weeds here. But that's such a strong point to make for other agents. To say, like, that that's not okay, it's not okay to give your client that much flexibility within their policy, you are not doing a good job by then.
I wish there was more that we could do to explain to people how unbeneficial it is to set up a policy in that way. Right? Because the client is just stuck in, I want this, I know it can be done, someone's gonna do it for me. That client is going to be the one that ends up unhappy in that situation. The agent made off.
Dustin : Oh, let me tell you, I'll, I'll actually give you the layman rundown. So 108, 000 at about a 35 percent monthly minimum no lapse. That's about 36, 000 a year that they have to pay in to pay for the cost of insurance. So that means the first 36, 000 he wanted to put in for three years, all that money went towards insurance.
So every dollar he put into this thing, a hundred grand over three years, straight to cost of insurance. Now he may have a couple thousand dollars of cash value. But his accumulated value can borrow from is going to be zero. And that's if the market does well, if the market does bad, he could have five, six, seven zeros.
And that target on that case through that carrier was about 50, 000. Now there are some carriers that have a really low monthly minimum net lapse. So let's say you're doing 3, 000 a month and you're young and you're healthy. That minimum payment may be 300 bucks a month. So 300 a month is 10 percent 90, 10 split seven, seven Oh two.
We won't get too crazy in details, but. If you're putting 300 a month into it to just fund the insurance, the other 2, 700 goes to cash value. That's max funding. You can't get a policy any better than that. Now, if you're setting it up where it's 9, 000 is the ceiling. Now your cost of insurance is 900. So if you're 3, 000, 2, 100 goes to cash value, 900 goes towards insurance.
You're really setting up a terrible policy. And the reason why the agent's going to say, yeah, we can do that. We can build flexibility. Money comes down to money. That's it. I can tell you we can do anything There was a guy who wanted to put a hundred thousand dollars in his policy up front Five hundred dollars a month for the rest of his life The policy actually performed and I was like, but I don't like it because it's not right It's not even close to right and I could have made so much money off of that
Casey : God, Dustin, you're one after the other and I haven't even had to ask you. Ugh. If, if anyone was doubtful that I just was like this awful mean person who was like, everyone sucks but me. Here is your proof. Dustin Wylie is fan frickin tastic, you guys. I, I love it. I love this so much. It's like the both ends of it, right?
Like, I'm so happy. That someone else is doing the right thing, and we're having the same thought process about how things should be done correctly. But then, to know, there's so many, there's so many things that you've experienced and had to combat in this industry of just shit agents. You know, so we're fighting the same battle here, and there's people out there that you can trust.
What would you say if they ask, hey, what should I look for when I am talking to agents or shopping around for policies?
Dustin : Most of the time I give them five bullet points to look for. So I say, okay, immediately on the illustration, do you see a flat death benefit? Is it exactly 200, 000? Is it exactly 700, 000? Is it exactly 750, 000? If it is, most likely you're being wronged. Two, ask them what the no lapse guarantee or the monthly minimum no lapse is.
If they don't know where that is and they can't find it, run. That's a huge deal. Yep. If if they automatically add riders to your policy without you asking now, if they come with it, that's great. They add riders to it. Run. I know the thing is if they try to tell you to liquidate qualified accounts to put into a non qualified cash value life insurance, and I've had people that are really respected say to do it and they say, Oh, you know, you 72 T take 4 percent a year for 25 years, but blah, blah, blah.
It's legal. It's doable. It's dumb. Don't do it. And then what was the fifth one the carrier? So I hate to pull carriers into this But i'm pretty sure everyone knows at least one carrier and i'm gonna just bring up this one because I know it's 100 percent wrong I replaced six policies in one household from transamerica
Casey : Oh. Transamerica, we could call them out all day long. Call them out all day long. Transamerica sucks.
Dustin : 99 percent of the reason why I replaced it was because They don't have participating loans. So meaning if you get to retirement, you have a million dollars and you take a hundred thousand dollars a year and the market doesn't return in 10 years, you're out of money. The policy lapses because it actually comes out of your account.
A participating loan means your money gets to still participate in the index. So you have a million dollars. You take a hundred thousand dollars a year for 10 years. Now you just technically can't take from it anymore because you used up all the loanable cash value. But if it comes back, if the market comes back, you're good.
That was the main reason. The other reason was this family was putting 50, 000 a year for husband and wife, 10, 000 a year for all four kids. So that's 140, 000 they were putting into these policies. They had them for over a year, asked me to look at them. So 140, 000 they put into this thing already. Each illustration had five zeros in a row.
So I said, if you wouldn't have called me, at least, at least 700 grand would have went up in smoke. That carrier alone, if you have a transamerica policy and you want anything other than term, run for the hills, call Casey, call me, we do not mind doing the replacement paperwork for that. And hey, I'm I'm 13 weeks into underwriting trying to replace these policies because I went to Double a rated carriers that actually have performance.
They have backing they trade options every day versus every month Like there's so many details you can go in with these carriers, but if you're not using a notable Carrier that actually does right by their clients. You got to run for the hill.
Casey : What's unfortunate, though, too, about Google and researching carriers is that the number one life insurance company is Northwestern Mutual. That's number one and the amount of Northwestern Mutual policies that I see and go through, they're no offense guys, they're garbage compared to the cash only life insurance policies that we're working with.
Northwestern Mutual is rated number one because They've been around forever and they have a lot of money under management and they have a lot of agents You know, they do they pay out their policies. Sure That doesn't mean that people are using these policies to leverage cash or create income. It's a solid whole life policy And really the company is just making bank and Google says number one.
And it's not Google, obviously. It's, you know, it's all these random platforms saying Northwestern Mutual is number one. The best companies aren't even listed in the top ten most of the time. So then, you know, you do have to have these bullet points and putting this information out into social media into your content to say these are the things you actually need to look for.
Dustin : Since we're bringing that up I got to jump on something before I forget. Sorry. Northwestern Mutual, if you have a Tenpei with Northwestern Mutual and it has a long term carrier rider in it, 100 percent chance you have a modified endowment contract So if you know of anybody or if you have a 10 pay with Northwestern Mutual and a long term care writer It will lapse and it will cause a modified endowment contract just so you know
Casey : You don't have bad products. They're just not number one. They're not the most competitive products if you actually know what's out there in the industry. Which, you know what? I want to circle back to what do day to day operations look like for you right now? Do you have a team, it sounds like?
How many people are on your team? Is it an MLM structure? Are you not? What's What's, what's going on there?
Dustin : Yeah, so up until August 1st, I was Viking Financial the CEO CFO janitor I did everything I ran the leads I did the social media And then a business partner of mine, now he is he came to me and he said, Hey, you know, back in the day I worked for one of the mutual companies. I had a huge, huge down at 9, 000 downline and I had a fib.
So I just,
Casey : Holy shit. Hold on, hold on. Okay, wait. 9, 000 people underneath him? 9, 000 people is insane. Like, that's up to par with, like, your Shirley Lu. Alright, we can move on. I just I had to give that some, some air time. Ha
Dustin : so he had a huge downline. He had a fib. He basically was dehydrated from just running a thousand miles an hour all the
Casey : I bet.
Dustin : So he decided to drop that and quit being so stressed out. Basically long and short of it. He said, Hey, you know, I'm doing all these clients now. But I want to build an agency again, but I just don't have the time to do it right now.
I'd like to back off of my business and then run the agency with you. Do you want to do this with me? And I'm thinking, man, this is like Elon Musk coming to your front door, not knowing who you are, opening the door and like, Hey, we're going to make a new car. It's going to revolutionize the industry. Do you want in?
I'll give you 50 percent of the partnership and all you gotta do is show up. Okay, and then we decided to come up with our own group spectrum planning group. We came up with the name It's funny like spectrum. We say spectrum because we're autistic on the spectrum So it's a joke, but it actually spectrum means
Casey : though. I love it so much.
Dustin : But You know spectrum means everything so it basically means we can do everything
Casey : Are you, are you currently looking to bring people on or are you pretty like, solid right now?
Dustin : We just don't want to recruit anyone. I said from the very
start that
Casey : good
Dustin : Just people that want to do what I want to do Yeah, whenever someone comes to me they're like hey, I want to do what you're doing But I'm not getting the training. I'm not getting the leadership that I should be getting where I'm at.
Then I'll talk to them, but then we got to have the conversation. I have to really believe it. Then I'll bring them on.
What we want to do is we want to build it right next year. Bring in all the people, all the good agents start writing good business, and then we can back off and start doing the private equity and the reinsurance.
Casey : Sounds like there's a lot of exciting things coming up for you, my friend. I want to ask you one more thing. If you, if you could tell the entire world one thing about life insurance, what would you say?
Dustin : There's people out there that, and I'm glad you brought this up. There's people out there that make their money off of fear mongering. So there's somebody out there that rhymes with Chris Kirkpatrick. There's somebody out there that runs a Dave Ramsey. There's a couple of people out there that lie to you about what life insurance is.
And I'll tell you the reason why they lie to you because term insurance is cheap. It's a hundred percent commission. If you cancel it and come back in a couple of months, they will. Immediately underwrite you get you more commission So if you are to come in and go to dave ramsey's baby step program go through his advisors They're going to say okay.
Hey a hundred bucks a month on term. They're going to make twelve hundred dollars Now that twelve hundred dollars is going to buy them time to get you into whatever, whatever products they're selling. So they're going to tell you that permanent insurance is bad. If you're looking to build a different asset class that is safe, protected, tax free, that's the biggest thing, tax free, cash flow life insurance is going to be one of your best bets.
Why do I say that? If you have a Roth IRA, you're looking at the 4 percent rule. You're looking at limitations per year. If you pull it out, you can only put it back in at now it's 7, 000 a year. It was 6, 500 this year, 7, 000 next year. If you have cash value life insurance, you can build it up to where you can put a couple million dollars a year into that policy.
So for people that are wealthy, if you're watching this and you're like, Hey, I don't have a Roth. The only thing tax free I have is really real estate. If I use cost segregation studies, all these different tax strategies, it's tax free. You can actually use a bank to finance your policy not talking about Kaizen So I want to bring that up real quick the dude that we were talking about earlier that left Or was kicked out of Casey's group He pushes Kaizen a lot run from Kaizen if you've ever if someone mentioned Kaizen run for the hills what Kaizen is You put money into a policy.
A third party puts money into the policy. You have no power of attorney over that money for 15 years. There's no statements to check. You're basically saying, here, please give me money. That's it. You have no rights over that money. It's experimental. The longest Kaizen policy, I believe is 11 years. So they're four years away from us actually seeing if this is a scam or real.
Anyways, you can finance your policy to where, and I'm just going to be really quick on this. Let's say you have five million dollars of real estate. You could have a bank put a million dollars a year into your policy for five years. You pay only the interest payment, so let's say it's grossed eight percent right now.
You could pay eighty thousand dollars a year for five years. So over five years you paid four hundred thousand dollars. There's five million dollars in your policy now at the end of five years We could cash out refinance all of your real estate Pay off the bank and now you have five million dollars of liquid cash value in your whole life or your IUL Then now you can leverage to go buy more properties.
So cash value life insurance is huge for the everyday American, but for wealthy people, I get disgusted at Dave Ramsey and all these people that say it's a scam because so many people out there are leveraging their cash value for these exact reasons. Now there's a lot of intricacies to what I just talked about with premium financing, but if you find the right place, the right banks don't get screwed over.
It is literally the best thing you could do. Now I will tell you to an agents that are watching this, I wanted to bring this up earlier. Not everybody needs cash value life insurance. If someone is perfectly healthy, they have a thousand dollars a month sitting around And you tell them put a thousand dollars into that policy You're wrong if you tell them to put three hundred dollars a month in there Maybe but depending on their age three hundred dollars a month is going to cut it So you should at least be putting ten times their age into a policy if they're 45 450 dollars three Thirty three hundred dollars a month if they can't do that comfortably Don't write the policy.
If someone feels like they need to make three premiums and then a minimum and then four premiums and then a minimum, put them into a Roth IRA. I can't tell you how many times I went to vanguard. com and I said, here, log in, make you an account, go to the 500, talk to you later. That's what they need. And if someone just basically is really bad at saving money, Take them to Dave Ramsey's site.
Let them do baby steps. Let them get out of debt. Say call me back whenever you're like, hey, this isn't right. Now at first it's going to sound right, but when it doesn't sound right, call me back. So yeah, I completely went around that whole question, but
Casey : yeah, I, no, but you just dropped so much knowledge. I did learn something here too Kaizen only being 11 years old. I've been trying to find out the history of Kaizen and it's not readily accessible. Wouldn't, you know, that it, you can't just type in how long has Kaizen been around and it's all 11 years.
It does not say that online, because that's very interesting. I'll be honest, we do have access to Kaizen and have played around with the software. Because it does sound like a intriguing, beneficial idea.
Dustin : to be true.
Casey : But it sounds like you think it's too good to be true, which is very interesting because I have not heard anyone say that before.
And I'm not just talking about Mr. Eminem Wealth Associates, Mike, your retirement guy, because I've had a lot of people tell me about Kaizen. Now, I'll say right now that me, McCall, Ryan, you know, I've sat around and played with Kaizen versus a OGIUL, and 9 out of 10 times, the OGIUL is a lot more valuable than the Kaizen, so we haven't had a situation where we went, Oh my gosh, this Kaizen looks so much better.
And that's just the illustration itself, like, we're getting stopped right there at the illustration software and it's not performing better than just manually contributing the money. So, I'm actually really glad to hear you say that. Now, you dropped so much knowledge, listeners are probably like, oh my god, they're gonna have to go back and re listen.
Which is amazing, I, I was thinking the whole time too. We're getting, you know, we got to wrap this up here, but I would love to have you back on the show to talk strictly about premium finance and all of the, you know, bank finance strategies that you're using with real estate and high net wealth individuals.
I think that would be really insightful for everyone. If you'd come back and hang out with me again.
Dustin : 100%. The only thing I have to say is if you'll let me download this and put it on my podcast, then I'll come back for number two.
Casey : I think we can work something out. I think we can work something out. Then we will wrap this up here. And I will end this by saying Mr. Dustin Wylie, where can people find you? What's the best way to reach out to you? Tell us everything.
Dustin : Yep. So I have a couple emails, but I won't put them out there because they're too long. I am on Instagram. I'm on TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook. If you want to talk to me specific. Just send me a dm on instagram. This is the longest i've been without messaging someone back on ig is this whole hour
Casey : whole hour.
Dustin : I normally get back to people almost immediately on there Just don't expect me to go into long conversation with you because I could spend days On dms with one person just answering their questions
Casey: Amen to that.
Dustin : Yes. So, and I know everybody out there that says, you know, I don't want to book an appointment. I don't want a one on one. I don't want a zoom call because I feel like I'm going to be pushed into buying something. We just told you that 90 percent of the time on average, we don't sell to clients because if they don't want it, they don't need it.
If they do want it and they don't need it, they don't get it. So if you want to,
Casey : don't get it.
Dustin : Yeah, if like, like Casey said earlier, I don't, I'm just going to use her words. If you don't like her because of who she is and you want to come to me, or if you don't like me because of who I am, you know, I may look like some conservative redneck and go to Casey, because I can just tell you by this podcast, I feel like we are cut from the same cloth.
We may do a little bit differently as far as the marketing, as far as the business, but I can confidently say she's probably doing 7702 policies and making sure the client's taken care of.
Casey : You're damn right. You're damn right. You know what I didn't hear in that is what's your handle?
Dustin : Oh, sorry, Viking Financial Group. Viking Financial Group is my, I believe, YouTube as well. So YouTube, I have some playlists in there. If someone's just like, hey, what's an IUL? We have a playlist with about eight videos that talk about IULs, tax strategies entrepreneur, Ventures all that good stuff and on Instagram Viking financial group spectrum planning group is my other page It's more of a backup for one day when they do delete my Instagram I'll have spectrum planning group So if you can if you're listening this and you're one of my followers go to spectrum planning group and follow it That way if they delete it, you know where I'm at.
Casey : Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I I will officially, officially gold star A plus. You are an asset, my friend. Dustin Wylie is a man to trust out here in the industry. It has been a privilege and an honor to have you on the show and get to know you more. And I cannot wait to get to chat again.
Dustin : Sounds good. We'll see you next time
Casey : Thanks so much everyone for listening. This has been the you're an asset podcast where
I'm your host Casey, the dollar. I'll see you next week. Bye!